What should we be doing?

[Ventura Patriot]

The Tea Party movement has taken the nation by storm, in spite of attempts by the media and establishment to first ignore it, then dismiss it and now use all the tools in their Alinsky toolbox against it.  Initially protesting high taxes, spending and bailouts, it is maturing into a political movement that advocates a return to a constitutional republic, fiscal prudence and restoration of liberties.

 Tea Party Threat Made Good

 

How should the Tea Party address that? Protests? Voter education? Advocacy? Evaluating public officials and candidates?  PACs?  A third party?  Turn out the vote?

 

 

 

This is a multi-threaded forum, so you can bring up new topics within this discussion and extend them as long as you want. You may have to scroll/page down to get to where you want to be. Sound off and tell us your thoughts, below ....

 

 

Please let us know "What Should the Tea Party be Doing?"

 

Include such things as:

- Strategy

- Priorities

- Specific event ideas

- Projects

 

Let us know what role you would like to play

 

Some ideas for upcoming meetings discussed until after 10:00 PM, following a recent meeting

- More on the VC Biology (environmental) guidelines

- State budget, incl taxes, attempt to kill Prop 13, state pensions, etc. etc

- Education funding

- Federal budget

- Political Comedy (sounds redundant)

- Lecture by well-known CA political writer

- CRA

- Constitution- general, 10th Amendment, 5th amendment, major Constitutional issues

- Obama impeachable offenses

 

 

 

 

[Ventura Patriot]

Darrell has a point and it's really not too different from the "Contract With America" concept. I agree that it could cut both ways, with Liberals trying to promise entitlements to voters, as well. We should add that the promise must be constitutional.

[Lee Shurie]

Good points.

Of course, we already have a document which contains the agreements our representatives are to be bound by: the Constitution. IMHO If we don't hold them to that document then other agreements are of little effect.

Best,
Lee

[Darrell Stafford]

Richard - I think you’re on the right path. Remember, the final contracts, which would be published during the campaign, would be the product of the candidates. With the contracts the voters would have more than just words-in-the-air to select a candidate.

If a candidate was to contract “not to send someone’s illegal alien sister back to Mexico” I believe most liberals and conservatives wouldn’t vote for him.

You are right on target with your comment “… a requirement that our elected officials were required to vote the will of the majority of their constituents or face impeachment,” except it needs to be a “financial penalty so significant it would stop the back room dealings.” I would be willing to contract to NEVER VOTE FOR A BUDGET THAT WASN’T BALANCED OR PAY A $100,000.00 FINE!

We can only save our country by bringing the so called moderate liberals (the majority) and conservatives together. If, 10 years ago we had forced candidates to represent the people of their districts, America would still be the strongest Nation in the world. No American, outside of Washington DC, wants a $13 Trillion deficit.

The worst by-product of my idea is that it would put an end to political parties….hmmmm… maybe that’s the best part!

[Darrell Stafford]

The "Contract with America" was a great idea and it got Republicans elected -- but it failed! It failed because there were no consequences! What we need is Contract4Congress with “very harsh” financial penalties. My favorite example is: $100,000.00 fine for voting in favor of a deficit budget. That sure would make some Congressmen think twice before handing out the pork!

[Darrell Stafford]

They don't let us hold them to that document -- they are exempt from personal liability and we can't even recall them! What we have "already" does work... I think we can all look at our situation and agree to that! It's time we put their feet to the fire and hold them personally responsible!

[Richard Dale Coplin]

Darrell, again I am agreeing with your comments overall. So, let me shift gears and ask just how would a change like this ever happen? Just role playing, I would say that we would have a referendum of some sort, to get it in front of Congress? We would need to amend the Constitution. We would need some sort of tracking mechanism, and someone to do arbitration on the contracts that the people have been violated.

Let me express it another way with an idea of mine. Why do we even need representatives, except as a figurehead? In this age of technology, why do we even need an electoral college? My idea is that we use our existing technology, protected by secure cybersoftware, have a National Citizen Database of registered, legal voters, and each individual gets one vote! Need to decide whether on not to go to war, why rely on the president or congress to declare it, just let 350 million people vote on it. Overall, this idea takes away the temptation to cheat. For some reason though, I think that groups, cliques, lobbys would emerge, even with the politicians out of the picture. People individually would be bought off for their vote, or pressured to support one view or another. And, we are back where we started.

Or, maybe move up one level and keep the elected officials to prepare the documents and the legal issues and then frame them in a way that the National Citizen Registry could vote on things. We get to vote after our representatives have gotten the, for example, Health Care Reform Bill assembled. I doubt if we would ever need such a comprenehsive approach to legislation ever again, as things would by necessity need to be written in peoplease, not legalease. We could certainly get the lawyers out of congress that way. Again, though, it seems to me that the process would be open to outside influence and that money would prevail in the very writing of the law so as to leave us where we started.

What is left? Our democracy will only work when educated and involved citizens elect men and women of integrity to office. Laws, regulations, contracts IMO only work on honest people, just like locks only keep out the honest people. You said it earlier, we let it slip away 10 years ago (and some would say much earlier). Some saw it coming and did nothing. Some of our own conservative thinkers let us down with their big spending. I agree that a coalition of liberal moderates and conservative thinkers can develop a critical mass that can turn things around.

Side note - are you involved in the Candidate Forum on May 11?

I must admit, your idea would bring new meaning to the phrase, "public servant".

[Ventura Patriot]

The founders were nervous about direct democracy, partially because of the logistics of accomplishing that with the technology of the time and partly because they feared that the average citizen lacked the resources and motivation to stay informed enough to make good decisions. So, they devised a system of representatives. Senators were not originally directly elected. Even the President is not now elected directly, but through an "Electoral College," although more electors are held to the vote of the people now. You actually vote for an elector, not a president/vice president candidate. Remember that Bush famously initially won on electoral votes, not popular vote, which the left never allows us to forget.

Some states, like California, allow direct voter initiatives, to allow the people to directly state their will. That has turned out to be a mixed blessing, but also brought about reforms such as Proposition 13, which capped runaway real estate taxes. Other propositions, like 187, were thwarted by a combination of the judiciary, government officials and NGO's. Prop 8 was passed, but is under full-scale attack, in the same fashion.

In my Tea Party work, I run into people all the time who say that they are too busy and have other priorites and cannot or will not stay sufficiently informed. They may not vote at all, or may rely upon sources such as party, uniion, clergy, friends, or God forbid, MSM. I know, because I was that way also.

[Darrell Stafford]

Wow Richard - now you are thinking outside the box.. good for you! The purpose of a Representative should be to expedite issues and stop deception. As George points out, most people don’t stay on top of issues and they need someone to give them an objective executive summary. Also, they need someone who will make a rationale decision on issues they aren’t interested in. Congress spends a lot of time naming Post Offices and most Americans are too busy trying to feed their families to care about post office names. Many special interest groups mislead the public by labeling a “cause” with a misleading name (e.g. Prop. 14) and many people don’t get passed the name.

Representatives should be the gate keepers and expeditors – nothing more and nothing less. It shouldn’t take a rocket scientist to be a representative.

As for your question “how would a change like this ever happen?” The answer is: It will happen when voters look candidates in the eyes and tell them “no contract, no vote!” We just need to elect one candidate with a contract to put the process in motion. We just need one role model to send a message that will scare the hell out of the Washington DC elite and special interest groups.

I proposed this solution to one of the Republican candidates. He said it sounded good but couldn’t be implemented because the candidate couldn’t contract with every voter. I just smiled at him and said good point. Of course, it can be implemented! A candidate could contract with your Tea Party, Church or even another person. But that’s not my idea. My idea is to set up Citizen Oversight Committees (COC) in Ventura, Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo counties. They would be independent from me and would include people from all political parties, towns, races, religions, etc. Together we would negotiate a contract. We would also establish a communicative network using the internet, newspapers, radio stations and TV to get voters involved. The interaction would be between the voters and the COC. The COC would bring the voice of the people to me and I would take it to Washington DC. The network is extremely important because our contract would include a “lack of confidence” provision where I would step down if the majority did not support me – (somewhat like England). As you know, Representatives cannot be recalled – so this would be a first. Also, normally recall elections are very expensive – but this would be cheap and easy!

It's time to stop politicians from treating us like children and it's time for us to stop acting like children. It's time for them to stop telling us what they will do for us and start asking what we want them to do for us!!!!

[Ventura Patriot]

Tea Party Movement Growing More Formal as Activists Create Federal Political Action Committees

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/03/tea-party-movement-growing-...

[Richard Dale Coplin]

I'm new to this group, but I just had to say the phrase "were not awake but now are" struck me as a great way to describe it. "I was blind, but now I see..."

[Richard Dale Coplin]

Some high level obserevations.

How did we get into this mess? 1. We took our eye off the ball. 2. We did not get involved in the debate. 3. We assumed the other guy (gal) would do it. 4. We did not teach our children how to care.

How do we get out of this mess? Find and develope more ways to utilize the media and technology to make it easier for people to get accurate, factual, truthful and timely information on issues that matter to our citizens.

I think we are doing that to a greater degree now than ever, however (and you will see this thread in all of my suggestions) we need to have our children and grand children seeing us being involved, using the PC to voice our opinions to newspapers and patriot groups, attending rallies, voting, and I know this is a corny saying, but they need to see us standing up for "truth, justice, and the American way".

Place new emphasis on our duty as citizens to make our government one, "...of the people, by the people and for the people.". That is in our schools and churches. How about a new tax deduction for each person over 18 that votes in an election. That would be an incentive for young people to take their knowledge from high school and begin a lifetime of being involved. Use our individual and group influence to become more active in the curriculum that is taught in our public schools, including increased emphasis on all aspects of citizenship. Hold "mirror" elections in all public schools for state and national elections. Relative to our churches, many of us have fallen into the trap (IMO) of believing the separation of church and state lie. Perhaps we are not to mix church with state, but where does it say we cannot mix state with church? I am not saying to have our pastors or elders or deacons tell us who to vote for, no. They can reinforce with their congregations the importance of being involved in our government by having Christian values represented in public office, public discussion and in public elections. In other words, educate via our churches to be involved.

It is our responsibility to, "...care for the widows, and orphans and the poor and the aliens in our land." If we did a better job of doing that as individuals and groups, our government would not feel the need to manipulate the same with offers of "free" everything. So, we have to take action ourselves on a one-on-one, need-by-need basis, with our families involved. This way we teach these young minds to BE INVOLVED and not wait on the other guy.

Finally, as you see in this thread, us OLD heads are moving our way down the conveyor belt. When we drop off the end, what will be our legacy? Will we have squandered our time and not taught our children our values?

A wise professor of mine taught me that "...students (and you can substitute children, employees, friends, wives, husbands), children tend to become, what they think, you think, they are. If you treat a child like a failure, welll you just made one. If you treat a child like a success, (and sometimes you have to fudge a bit) then you likewise just made one. Why, because they see themselves through your eyes. If they think, you think they are doing the right thing, they tend to rise to that level. Teach your children that you think they are a success when they express political ideas or involvement, and they will grow in that direction.

Forgive the inclusion of the following, but Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young had it long before we did.

Crosby Stills Nash Young - Teach Your Children

You who are on the road
Must have a code that you can live by
And so become yourself
Because the past is just a good bye.

Teach your children well,
Their father's hell did slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they picked, the one you'll know by.

Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.

And you, of tender years,
Can't know the fears that your elders grew by,
And so please help them with your youth,
They seek the truth before they can die.

[Darrell Stafford]

We didn't see it coming.. the mess began when our legal system determined a corporation was legally a "person" thereby taking away all accountability from those who operate it. This, of course, spilled over into government... and corruption and greed got a foothold.

I want my grandchildren to see me standing up for good and ethical ideas and uniting people at a time when my fellow countrymen are becoming more intolerant of each other and further dividing our country. As I see it either we are Americans (& Humans) or we are Democrats and Republicans.

My question is this: If your enemy, let's say the most liberal Democrat, big spender, greedy, self centered person repented and converted to our conservative roots would you take them into your heart -- the answer, of course, is NO. It's NO because they still wouldn't belong to the right political party.